Pathfinder 8 is a disaster, and reverting to 7 did not help much

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hs

07 Jan, 2019 01:37 AM

I've been a loyal user for about a decade, but am about to give up. PF8 disappeared all my sidebar favorites/shortcuts, and judging from other postings on cocoatech support, it seems I'll never get them back, and PF tech has blamed Apple. Also, I noticed that the shortcuts I placed in my PF title bar, although they still "worked", could not be changed -- can't delete any of them, and can't add any. I saw in another posting simply that this is a "known issue". I reverted to PF7, which gave me back my sidebar "favorites" section, but still no titlebar shortcut links. Also the back-&-forth integration link to Finder seems profoundly obliterated in other ways, too. For example, Default Folder X, a Mac utility I use to quickly save files to various Finder/Pathfinder folders, is also now broken (works on Finder, of course, just not Pathfinder) -- so I have to keep both Finder and Pathfinder windows open, continually setting them to the folder I am current accessing/saving files. A complete mess!!!!!!!

P.S. When I just tried to "CREATE" this posting, I got a fatal error "File not found" to upload the screenshot -- yet another failing, I suppose. Now I'll just not attach the screenshot I referenced.

For reference, I attach a screenshot I happened to snap a few years ago, showing how I typically populate my mac PF windows. PF (at least through PF7) was incredibly useful to me, greatly enhancing my workflow. Now it is worse than useless. If only Mac Finder had an option to display my color file tags across the window as in PF, rather than as little colored dots.

Needless to say, I won't be un-reverting back to PF8, which I paid for without knowing that my most-incessantly used PF feature, the sidebar favorites (still present in Finder) were a thing of the past. And some key flaws (e.g. the titlebar links no longer available, and no more mirroring to Finder windows) are also present even after reverting to PF7, apparently a function of my now using osX Mojave.

I'm looking for alternatives, and I frankly feel betrayed.

Model Name: iMac Model Identifier: iMac15,1 macOS Mojave: v 10.14.2 Processor Name: Intel Core i7 Processor Speed: 4 GHz Number of Processors: 1 Total Number of Cores: 4 L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB L3 Cache: 8 MB Memory: 32 GB Boot ROM Version: IM151.0211.B00 SMC Version (system): 2.23f11 Serial Number (system): D25PL0B4FY14 Hardware UUID: 0CEDB9BA-5790-5377-A7AB-A8A5C883ECEF.

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 07 Jan, 2019 11:12 AM

    Path Finder Support Team's Avatar

    Hi, 

    Sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction. 

    I'd like to point out that PF8 is a foundation for further updates and improvements which are coming as soon as our developers deal with the major issues. 
    See more at https://cocoatech.com/#/post/path-finder-8

    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  2. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 07 Jan, 2019 11:12 AM.

  3. hs re-opened this discussion on 07 Jan, 2019 03:50 PM

  4. 2 Posted by hs on 07 Jan, 2019 03:50 PM

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    I'm sorry, but are you kidding me? That's the only response? How about if I down-select to one key issue, and this applies to PF7 as well as PF8: "I reverted to PF7, which gave me back my sidebar "favorites" section, but still no titlebar shortcut links. Also the back-&-forth integration link to Finder seems profoundly obliterated in other ways, too. For example, Default Folder X, a Mac utility I use to quickly save files to various Finder/Pathfinder folders, is also now broken (works on Finder, of course, just not Pathfinder) -- so I have to keep both Finder and Pathfinder windows open, continually setting them to the folder I am current accessing/saving files. A complete mess!!!!!!!"

  5. 3 Posted by RDM on 07 Jan, 2019 04:19 PM

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    I confirm, Path Finder 8 is a disaster

  6. 4 Posted by enkaytee on 08 Jan, 2019 09:30 AM

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    PF8 has been available for nearly 8 months and I don't see any evidence of the statement: "With good foundation laid out, further changes and improvements should be easier, faster and delivered more often."
    It seems that bug fixing and development are incredibly slow, the level of communication from Cocoatech is pretty much non-existent or useless and long-term customers are losing patience - some, like me have already abandoned PF for alternatives.
    "We hope we will attract new users with many new (and old) features, which gives Path Finder the edge over Finder and other file managers." Good luck with finding those new users - I think you have a huge uphill struggle on your hands...

  7. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 09 Jan, 2019 10:00 AM.

  8. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 09 Jan, 2019 10:00 AM

  9. 5 Posted by smallniche on 10 Jan, 2019 12:37 PM

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    The only viable path for me thus far has been to revert to PF 7 which except for toolbar seems to be working.

    (loyal user for years....increasingly doubtful)

    :(

  10. 6 Posted by Gmail on 10 Jan, 2019 12:38 PM

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    nigel turley

  11. 7 Posted by dannymatranga on 10 Jan, 2019 05:28 PM

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    The Sidebar and Favorites bugs should be prioritized over feature additions or enhancements. These are essential functions for an application that seeks to replace Finder.

  12. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 11 Jan, 2019 10:34 AM.

  13. hs re-opened this discussion on 12 Mar, 2019 11:45 PM

  14. 8 Posted by hs on 12 Mar, 2019 11:45 PM

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    I agree with small niche, above, which seems exactly my experience. And I agree with dannymatranga as to what ought to be PF tech priorities.

    Question for tech support: It's been more than 2 months since my posting about PF8 and the death therein of sidebar & titlebar favorites/shortcuts. My question is twofold: (i) Will PF tech support here keep failing to even acknowledge that these deficiencies exist, thereby misleading new purchasers by advertising features that no longer exist? and (ii) How can I know when or if the PF folk at Cocoatech have posted a version of PF8 with these profound deficiencies cured, i.e how can I know when (or if, actually) to try PF8 again, a program that I have paid for and cannot even use?

    I suppose, as I type this, that the very lack of any kind of acknowledgement from Cocoatech that these failures exist -- read through this thread and you will see no real response from Cocoatech -- this may be the most disturbing point. I mean, how can anyone fix anything in life if they don't first admit to error. Or, apparently from Cocoatech's perspectives, since they don't admit to users that there is a fundamental performance problem, that must mean they don't see anything to fix. I guess you don't want customers to return.

  15. 9 Posted by smallniche on 15 Mar, 2019 01:25 AM

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    Exactly!

    When will Cocoatech respond specifically to these ongoing, unresolved problems?

  16. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 15 Mar, 2019 01:19 PM.

  17. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 15 Mar, 2019 01:19 PM

  18. Support Staff 10 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 15 Mar, 2019 01:21 PM

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    Hi,

    Thank you all for your passion towards Path Finder.

    I'd like to address your concerns regarding the Sidebar and Toolbar issues - they do not go unnoticed. We have received your (and others) reports regarding the issues you are facing with these components, and what improvements you'd like to see. We have already forwarded this information to our development team. Moreover, we continue investigating issues on hand and gathering new and more detailed info.
    With the toolbar, in particular, the majority of reports indicate running macOS Mojave and dropping items seems to be running as expected on macOS Sierra and High Sierra. 
    Regarding the new sidebar module, it is expected that the Favorites section only accept directories and not files/applications. Adding files and/or applications to the sidebar is submitted as a feature request to be implemented in the future updates

    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  19. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 15 Mar, 2019 01:21 PM.

  20. hs re-opened this discussion on 15 Mar, 2019 03:57 PM

  21. 11 Posted by hs on 15 Mar, 2019 03:57 PM

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    PART ONE
    Thanks for our passion? Now it's getting infuriating. I see Jordan making two assertions:
    (i) We've heard a few scattered rumors of supposed problems (PF8 w/Mojave) with sidebar "dropping" and toolbar (what I called titlebar) "dropping" not working, and we've reported these rumors to the development team; but we don't really believe them, because most users find both "droppings" and the other failings you described are working fine for them, even though I won't actually address any of the other failings you listed in my response admiring your passion. (ii) Don't expect to add "files/applications" to the sidebar, because it only accepts directories. You, hs, obviously don't even know how PF is supposed to work in the first place.

    As regards (i), why do you think I am an outlier (if not liar), if the other commenters in this thread all agree with me; I read no one thinking I'm crazy. I'd love to see a screenshot video of someone demonstrating they are running Mojave & PF8 but with all PF8 features working. I am willing to believe that, which is why at my first comment I delineated my exact full hardware & OS X details, in case those mattered; however, where are the commenters saying, "Hmmm, gee, those features all work for me, and it seems strange that you have these problems. Maybe try this or that." And I also don't see Jordan saying, "Yes, we have been able to duplicate these issues, and we're working on it." No, I just see dismissive, even arrogant, mansplaining on the part of Jordan on the PF Team.

    [continued, as my response was "too big"]

  22. 12 Posted by hs on 15 Mar, 2019 03:59 PM

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    PART TWO
    [oh, now I see what was apparently too big was my attachment, which was 3.9MB, well below 10MB. I had this same problem the first time]

    As regards (ii), this is a complete "straw man" or "red herring" assertion, as neither I nor anyone else on this thread has complained about being unable to add files or applications to the sidebar. Indeed, the screenshot I uploaded before, and again now, showing how I used to use PF, makes it clear that I drop only directories/folders into my sidebar. My complaint is that with PF8 I cannot drop ANYTHING into the sidebar, and I cannot change (delete or add to) ANY OF THE ITEMS I previously dropped into the toolbar/titlebar. Reverting to PF7 under Mojave allows me to regain the ability to drop directories/folders into the sidebar, but still no editing of the shortcuts in my toolbar/titlebar. And don't forget the OTHER PROBLEMS I cited, such as under PF8 and even under PF7/Mojave, the mirror-like link between PF sidebar and the Mac sidebar is broken, and changing the directory/folder contents of one does not update to match in the other. Or that some of my critically-important helper apps like Default Folder X no longer work with PF8 (but do work with PF7/Mojave after I reverted).

    So once again I ask, can I get any kind of response that shows that Team Path Finder understands and at least believes, and has replicated, the issues we commenters in this thread are citing?

    Passionately,
    hs
    Soon-to-be member of Ex-PF Users Team Now Badmouthing Team PF To All Our Friends And Online

    P.S. Since my first posting, I have upgraded to a brand new iMac, but the PF problems are all still the same. My new system:
    Model Name: iMac Model Identifier: iMac18,3, macOS Mojave: v 10.14.3 Processor Name: Intel Core i7 Processor Speed: 4.2 GHz Number of Processors: 1 Total Number of Cores: 4 L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB L3 Cache: 8 MB Memory: 32 GB Boot ROM Version: 166.0.0.0.0 SMC Version (system): 2.41f1 Serial Number (system): D25Y805NJ1GQ Hardware UUID: 6C43CC3E-6162-5BEE-9FCC-4CEB1DE57054.

  23. 13 Posted by hs on 15 Mar, 2019 04:03 PM

    hs's Avatar

    Okay, I'll try the attachment as a jpeg, down to 830kb.
    Passionately,
    hs

  24. 14 Posted by hs on 15 Mar, 2019 04:41 PM

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    OMG, after posting this, I searched this string in your system, "path finder 8 mojave". The problems being reported confirm that I and the others in this thread are not crazy, and also that nothing is being fixed, AND that the number and seriousness of the user complaints is cascading and multiplying. Here is just one summary excerpt: "Unfortunately, at this time and on macOS High Sierra, PF7 runs well and PF8 is a well documented disaster." [anyone can find that guy's whole posting by searching for that quotation]

    I fear that unresponsive Cocoatech is embroiled a marketing disaster.

    Sincerely,
    Passionate hs

  25. 15 Posted by smallniche on 15 Mar, 2019 07:39 PM

    smallniche's Avatar

    "With the toolbar, in particular, the majority of reports indicate running macOS Mojave and dropping items seems to be running as expected on macOS Sierra and High Sierra. "

    Path Finder Team: Please post a short video of a full functioning Toolbar on Mojave to give me some hope.

    Thanks

  26. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 16 Mar, 2019 05:17 PM.

  27. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 16 Mar, 2019 05:19 PM

  28. Support Staff 16 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 16 Mar, 2019 05:19 PM

    Path Finder Support Team's Avatar

    Hi HS,

    I think there was a misunderstanding. Let me try to clear up what I intended to say:

    "With the toolbar, in particular, the majority of reports indicate running macOS Mojave, and dropping items seem to be running as expected on macOS Sierra and High Sierra." The sentence has two parts in it and what I've tried to say was:
    1) The majority of reports concerning toolbar issues come from users running macOS Mojave.
    2) Toolbar's "Accept dropped items" (both files and folders) feature seem to be working fine for macOS Sierra and High Sierra.

    I have tested it and was able to reproduce this behavior (i.e. not accepting dropped items) with both PathFinder 7 and 8 on macOS Mojave.

    Now, let me expand a bit on the Sidebar module.
    The Sidebar in Path Finder 7 amassed a lot of features. That also means it consisted of large amounts of legacy code and deprecated or unsupported APIs that provided these features. Supporting this was simply not sustainable, not even mentioning it's hindered our ability to work on new features.
    We have completely reworked Sidebar in Path Finder 8. It's no longer a huge and unbudging piece to the left. It's a mobile, streamlined and flexible module. Those are, in fact, two completely different components that happen to fill the same role.
    The new Sidebar module is newer, but also younger and not as feature-rich. It is in our plans to expand its functionality with new features, and some of the old Sidebar's features may reappear as new modules. And yet as of now, it has fewer features and we do acknowledge that.
    As a part of reworking the Sidebar, API for syncing "Favorites" and in general all those "Recent…" lists to Finder was dropped. 
    It was deprecated and abandoned by Apple a long time ago. In each new version of PF it worked worse. We tried having that as long as possible, but we cross the point at which it became a liability and not feature. It became a real pain, both in customer support and code maintenance. We don't want to make any kind of excuses here, but in this case, it's really Apple to blame. 
    As far as we know, no other 3rd party application offers that sort of synchronization, even if they did they gave up a long time ago. We kept it as long as possible, but the burden of supporting it became just too overwhelming for the benefits it provides.

    With all that said, you should be able to drop folders into the Sidebar's Favorites group. This worked file in my testing. Are you unable to do so?

    In regards to Default Folder X, would you mind starting a separate issue thread with us? I will be happy to look into this.

    To sum this up:
    1) Toolbar does not accept items on Mojave. Reproduced. Sorry for the bad wording in my previous reply.
    2) Toolbar seems to accept items on High Sierra. Tested. If that is not the case, please let us know.
    3) Sidebar module was reworked from the grounds up. This does mean it would have fewer features then PF7 Toolbar.
    4) Sidebar module is nevertheless expected to accept directories. This was tested. If you experience any issues, I would be happy to investigate.
    5) Sidebar module no longer syncs with Finder. The API used to accomplish that sync was deprecated by Apple long ago and yet we kept it for as long as we could. For PathFinder 8, we could not handle supporting this any longer, unfortunately.
    6) In regards to Default Folder X and any other issues, please contact us in dedicated threads. Again, I would be happy to investigate this.

    Small Niche,

    As mentioned above, there was a misunderstanding. Toolbar does not work in Mojave according to most reports. Yet it should work on Sierra or High Sierra.

    Let me know if this helps to clear the confusion

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  29. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 16 Mar, 2019 05:19 PM.

  30. hs re-opened this discussion on 17 Mar, 2019 09:59 PM

  31. 17 Posted by hs on 17 Mar, 2019 09:59 PM

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    Thank you, Jordan, for finally responding in a way that shows you read and understood my comments and complaints. My responses to you, below, start with the “—” symbol.
     
    With all that said, you should be able to drop folders into the Sidebar's Favorites group. This worked file in my testing. Are you unable to do so?
      -- PF8 under Mojave: No drop of folders into Sidebar anywhere, plus the ones I used to have there (see my graphic from before) have disappeared.
      -- PF7 under Mojave: Yes for drop of folders into Sidebar, but not into “FAVORITES”. I am happy with the Sidebar as it works under PF7/Mojave. My PF Sidebar sections by default are “DEVICES”, “SHARED”, “PLACES”, “RECENT DOCUMENTS”, AND “SEARCH FOR”. I see no “FAVORITES” section in the sidebar. I do see the gear at the bottom of the sidebar, where I can “Hide” any of those 6 sections, or create a “New Sidebar…”, which I am afraid to try, in case it obliterates my sidebar, which I have carefully and laboriously reconstructed with the folders/directories I had before the PF8 debacle.
     
    2) Toolbar seems to accept items on High Sierra. Tested. If that is not the case, please let us know.
      -- I’m sorry, but I can’t help you re High Sierra or Sierra. I don’t use them, and don’t plan to go back to them. Under my Mojave, everything is working well, including all my helper apps. It takes a long time to fine-tune the zillion helper apps and system/cloud settings, plus the major applications. after a major OS X operating system upgrade. All my major applications (Adobe this & that, Microsoft this & that, etc.) are now updated and working well. PF is about the only helper app of mine that is still hosed under Mojave.
     
      -- PF7 (under Mojave) is partially hobbled.
        -- -- Sidebar is fine.
        -- -- That little Bookmarks row, above the PF window tabs row and under the Toolbar (what I called Titlebar), also works fine, accepting links to both folders and files, and remains fully editable.
        -- -- The Toolbar (or Titlebar) at the top of the PF window, with PF7 or PF8 under Mojave, is totally dead. It displays none of the icons for shortcuts to both folders and files I used to populate it with. You can see how I used to use that in my earlier-posted graphic. Now totally dead, devoid of all my old often-used icons, and will not accept any dropped folders at all.
        -- -- -- -- Interestingly, the Mojave Finder windows’ Toolbar/Titlebar still accept dropped folders or files.
     
      -- PF8 (under Mojave) was completely out of whack, a disaster – no dropping of any folders to the Sidebar, no dropping of folders or files to the Toolbar, no dropping of folders to the Sidebar. (I don’t remember about the little Bookmarks row in PF8 under Mojave.)
     
    3) Sidebar module was reworked from the grounds up. This does mean it would have fewer features then PF7 Toolbar.
      -- The only Sidebar feature I really care about is the ability to drop folders into it. That’s all I ever used it for.
    
4) Sidebar module is nevertheless expected to accept directories. This was tested. If you experience any issues, I would be happy to investigate.
      -- If you mean this to refer to PF8 under Mojave, that’s not at all my experience. PF8 would accept nothing dropped into it. Same with the Toolbar/Titlebar. Also incompatible with Default Folder X, upon which I utterly depend for quickly saving new or changed files into one of the active folders on my desktop, the way DFX will sorta highlight-outline the folder over which my cursor is hovering. I don’t have time to work through popup or dropdown menus to find the folder I need to deposit a new or edited file. If PF8 continues to be incompatible with DFX, I will simply never start using the PF8, even though I already paid for the upgrade.

    5) Sidebar module no longer syncs with Finder.
      -- For me this is at most a minor annoyance, because with a perfectly-performing PF, I almost never have to open up an OS X Finder window. The mutual syncing between PF and Finder was handy and useful, but ultimately easy to live without.

    6) In regards to Default Folder X and any other issues, please contact us in dedicated threads. Again, I would be happy to investigate this.
      -- When I have time. This communication takes time away from billable clients of mine. Meanwhile, my comments above describe the nonfunctioning of DFX under PF8, while DFX is working fine for me under PF7 and Mojave. No complaints. But unless DFX interaction gets fixed with PF8 under Mojave, as I described, I’ll never try PF8 again.

    -- NOTE TO JORDAN: If you want me to try PF8 again under Mojave, I am willing, but only if you can tell me how to preserve all my changes to the PF7 interface, include my population of folders into the Sidebar, and in the little Bookmarks row, and all my PF7 preferences re which folders are set to default-display to, say, by reverse-chron order vs alphabetical by filename, and so on. All that takes forever, and I am unwilling to do that again just to test PF for you, or for me. So if you can tell me a folder where all those preferences and settings are contained that I can backup or archive in such a way that I can restore my PF7 under Mojave as it is today – well, then I might be willing to try upgrading again to PF8 just to see again if I face the horrors of the last time I tried the PF8 upgrade. LET ME KNOW IF THAT IS POSSIBLE.

    Thanks,

    -- Hugh
    ____________________________________________________________________________
    Hugh Schmittle | 2122 Kimberly Circle, Eugene OR 97405 USA | [email blocked] | direct: 1.541.636.0525 | mobile: 1.541.222.0128

  32. 18 Posted by massimo.lucano on 19 Mar, 2019 09:23 AM

    massimo.lucano's Avatar

    Dear all,
    I'm a long term Mac user (since 1984), a programmer and user of PathFinder since the beginning I can confirm that PathFinder 8 is a disaster; I switched back to PathFinder 7.6.2 with High Sierra and I don't upgrade to Mojave. I found most of the issues reported here and even other related to strange update of PathFInder 8 windows. Due to the fact I have no time to spend to debug this application I asked the support to be fully refunded for the buy of PathFinder 8.
    All of the users should do the same: asking to be refunded.
    My suggestion is to work on release 9 and to fix all the bugs instead to add new features and maybe to have a look at ForkLift...
    Best regards

  33. Support Staff 19 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 20 Mar, 2019 01:43 PM

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    Hi Hugh and everyone,

    Sorry for the delayed reply.

    The sidebar in Path Finder 8
    By default you will see the following sections: “DEVICES”, “SHARED”, “FAVORITES” (it replaced "PLACES" from PF7), “RECENT DOCUMENTS”, "RECENT FOLDERS", “SEARCH FOR”, and "TAGS". 

    The mentioned "Favorites" section should accept folders. If you experience this issue, please let me know - I would be happy to look further into it.

    Bookmarks bar in PF8 under Mojave works as expected, allowing folders, files, and apps to be added to it.

    The Toolbar issues under Mojave were reported to our development team. 
    Items added before upgrading to macOS Mojave would still work but no new items can be added at the moment. Sorry for the inconvenience.

    And as for preserving PF7 settings while moving to PF8 and back, there is no supported way to export the settings, unfortunately.

    The following items keep your PF7 and PF8 settings:
    /Library/Application Support/Path Finder/ (folder) /Users/your username here/Library/Application Support/Path Finder/ (folder) /Users/your username here/Library/Preferences/com.cocoatech.pathfinder.plist (file)

    Deleting these items and restoring them from a time machine backup (or another backup) should and usually does restore your settings within same Path Finder version.

    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  34. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 20 Mar, 2019 01:43 PM.

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