No Custom Label Colors - Please get it back for PathFinder 8.

psychiatry's Avatar

psychiatry

03 Jun, 2018 04:01 PM

PathFinder 7 allows you to Customize the Label Colors.

LINK: https://i.imgur.com/7EK1Iyq.png

INLINE IMAGE: PathFinder 7 Custom Label Colorss

PathFinder 8 has NO CUSTOM TAG COLORS.

On my system - perhaps because of a deep Finder bug in MacOS - the tags shown by PathFinder are wrongly colored. They are colored their original Finder Tag colors from Mac OS X 10.2 instead of MacOS 10.13. For example:

Tag 1 is yellow instead of red.
Tag 2 is green instead of orange.
Tag 3 is red instead of yellow.
Tag 4 is cyan instead of green.
Tag 5 is purple instead of blue
Tag 6 is blue instead of purple.
Tag 7 is orange instead of gray.

LINK: https://i.imgur.com/93KKMyl.png

INLINE IMAGE: Pathfinder Custom Sidebars

The ability to customize the Tag Colors would have allowed me to compensate for the bug.

Here are the corrected label colors:

LINK: https://i.imgur.com/HYtUEre.png

INLINE IMAGE: PathFinder 7 Custom Label Colors Corrected

Showing page 2 out of 2. View the first page

  1. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 26 Sep, 2019 03:12 PM.

  2. nick re-opened this discussion on 26 Sep, 2019 05:30 PM

  3. 31 Posted by nick on 26 Sep, 2019 05:30 PM

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    Hi Jordan,
    I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful and I don’t want to be disobliging —but can you not see that this is just more of the same?

    All that we have asked for is some meaningful feedback from the devs:
    This feature is/is not problematical to implement
 This feature is/is not a high priority

    We can/cannot support custom label colors because x/y/z

    We all understand about no feature announcements in advance to avoid disappointment when schedules slip etc, but this is getting farcical. PF8 has many unnecessary new features but lacks this one significant feature from PF7 which users have been telling you is essential for over a year. Did you ask the devs why? Did they refuse to reply? Is it a secret? Did someone mess up over the architecture of PF8 as Richard implies, and should we be pinning our hopes on PF9? We are grown-ups. Just persuade those that do know what the problem is to trust us to understand and share a bit more for the sake of your credibility. Thank you.

  4. 32 Posted by psychiatry on 29 Sep, 2019 06:31 AM

    psychiatry's Avatar

    Dear Jordan,

    Thanks for the update.

    I appreciate the work all of you guys have done to create Path Finder.

    I am pleased that the latests updates have been stable and useful enough to use regularly.

    I am particularly pleased the correction of the longstanding bug which caused the Finder and Path Finder to have different label colors. Some apps such as Transmit still have this bug. The bug shows up only on certain accounts on a Mac and not every account.

    i used custom label colors to correct Path Finder 7's labels so they matched the Finder Labels.

    With the resolution of the bug, I don't need custom label colors as much as other people do.

    Thank yoiu.

    Best,

    Romeo Mariano
    [email blocked]

  5. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 03 Oct, 2019 01:28 PM.

  6. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 03 Oct, 2019 01:29 PM

  7. Support Staff 33 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 04 Oct, 2019 01:35 PM

    Path Finder Support Team's Avatar

    Hi All,

    I've just spoken with our main developer on this very topic. I will offer a much more detailed explanation below, but long story short, the main reason why colored tags were removed is to avoid confusion.

    We've used coloring in the "label" days, before Apple replaced them with Tags, and we could represent labels with a custom name. Since the Tags introduction, there can be multiple names. Apple also introduced 7 default tags (Green, Red, etc. - and their localized variants), which we can't rename. This means that while using the custom colors, sometimes your "Green" tag (referring to the name) may have drastically different color, and we didn't want such confusion.

    Now to the specifics:
    In Path Finder 7 (and in previous versions) there were only 7 labels (note that labels are not the same as tags). Labels were (and still are) just an integer value in the file metadata, ranging from 0 to 7 (No color to Orange). These integers were processed by Finder to display a pre-defined name and color for the label. What we did in Path Finder at the time was to take that number and allow you to customize its representation. Label of value 6, for example, by default is named "Red" and has Red color, but you could choose to have it named "Cats" and colored bright pink.

    Below is an example of possible customization:



    Labels "Palette"
    ID Default| Custom
    0      No  Color
    1 Gray | Light Gray 2 Green | Wine Red 3 Purple | Blue 4 Blue | Neon Green 5 Yellow | Night Sky 6 Red | Cats 7 Orange | Dark Gray

    That worked well until Apple introduced tags to (eventually) replace labels. Don't get me wrong, tags are great, versatile, and welcome! Tags don't have a set range of values - in fact, there is no maximum amount of tags, you may have as many as you'd like. They are identified by their name. Tags also have a "pallete" of 8 coloration options (7 colors and none).
    For compatibility sake, Apple related tags to labels and vice versa. For example If you add a red-colored tag "Important" to a file, that file will be tagged with the tag "important" and be assigned a label 6 (which is colored Red by default). If you had a file with a label 4 (colored Blue by default), for example, then on a newer system it will retain the label 4 and become tagged with a blue-colored tag named "Blue" - or your localized name such as "Azul" or "Синий".
    Now, that's where the confusion begins. If you've changed your label 4 to show up as a neon green in Path Finder, you will be confused why "Blue" tag (note: It's a tag named "Blue") shows up so similar to Green. Moreover, you will grow even more confused when you see that in Finder, all your tags work properly - "Green" is colored in the green color, "Blue" is colored in blue. In disbelief, you attempt to add a "Green" tag in Path Finder - sure enough, it's colored in wine red. That happens because the respective labels (4 and 2) have been customized to show up in neon green and wine red colors.
    It's not just a theory either, we've had a few people lost in their tags because of it. We don't want to introduce any extra complexity or confusion into Path Finder, therefore we've pulled off this feature from Path Finder 8.

    To be clear, it is possible to re-implement it. This will allow you to customize your own "palette" of 7 colors to be shown in Path Finder (note that in Finder colors will remain unchanged). The tags associated with the same label (e.g. all Red-colored tags are associated with label 6) will all change their displayed color to a custom one. However we do not want to cause any extra confusion for our existing and especially new users in the process.

    With that in mind, let me ask you a few questions.
    1) How important is this feature to you? What uses do you expect out of it? We would love to hear your feedback.
    2) What would be your suggestion, if any, to reduce or avoid the confusion this feature could cause?

    Do share this and invite others to give their feedback!

    Best Regards,
    Jordan
    Path Finder Support Team

  8. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 04 Oct, 2019 01:42 PM.

  9. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 04 Oct, 2019 01:42 PM

  10. 34 Posted by nick on 04 Oct, 2019 06:41 PM

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    THANK YOU Jordan. This is the conversation I have been wanting to have ever since PF8 came out. Please forgive the length of my reply.

    In answer to you first question: How important is this feature to you? 
Important enough to keep me using PF7 even though I have paid to upgrade.

    Now to address your other questions.
    I understand the potential for confusion, but I think I am right in saying that nothing has changed in this respect between versions 7 and 8. Apple adopted tags with Mavericks (2013) and PF7 was released in 2014 and supports them just fine, though in fact it operates a hybrid system where labels are coloured tags (limited to 7) and tags are just tags.

    Yes tags are unlimited in number and yes label colours are limited to 7+ null, but it didn’t confuse me in 7 and it wouldn’t confuse me in 8. I can see how a user could get their colours and tags out of sync, especially if they are using both Finder and Path Finder, but it should be straightforward to direct people out of the maze if they get stuck. To cut the feature for fear of confusion is for Cocoatech to patronise their users and negate exactly the reason why people come to PF in the first place.

    There are ways in which the implementation of tags and colours could be improved, but I’d be very happy to stick with the PF7 implementation. To throttle back the confusion even more, I would not mind if the “Label” colour names were fixed so long as the colours themselves are editable.

    [A brief diversion here on why the colours matter. I am a graphic designer, which is why I use a Mac and why I embraced Path Finder with delight. You know the stereotypical designer’s studio: grey walls, carefully chosen furniture? Actually mine is nothing like that, but you get the picture: if you trade in visual things the visual environment matters. Somebody comes in and paints the walls magenta and you go mad. The first thing I did with PF was to tone down the label colours: they all communicate specific meanings but they don’t shout at me. Being reverted to the Apple defaults was a visual affront comparable with painting my walls magenta.]

    Back to your last question:
    2) What would be your suggestion, if any, to reduce or avoid the confusion this feature could cause?
    • Any current user of PF8 should be in synch with Red = red, Blue = Blue etc.
 • When customisable colours return, the choices would be set to defaults so all users should be starting from a stable base. 
 • The seven standard Apple colour names could be uneditable, so that when users edit their associated colours it is unambiguous what “label” they are editing; if they choose to make Red show up blue, that’s their choice, but if they want to get back in sync it’s obvious how to do so. • Ideally (and I’m not sure how PF8 does this since I’m not running it) it should be possible (as with Finder) to associate any tag with one of the standard colours, so every time you choose the tag Cats it comes up with your version of blue…or red…or whatever.

    Again not sure about the PF8 handling of multiple tags/colours, but a pref to choose between whole row colouring (last applied tag) or blobs (multiple colours) would work fine for me.

    That would be my baseline implementation. It would be wonderful (and useful) to be able to associate an unlimited range of custom colours with all tags. That may be blue sky thinking, but—why not? PF needs to maintain its feature premium over Finder. Cocoatech should think big, and trust its users.

  11. 35 Posted by nick on 01 Nov, 2019 10:55 AM

    nick's Avatar

    I see now that PF9 had already been released when I write the previous post. Has that changed things at all? Does it change the schedule for a restoration of custom colours?

  12. 36 Posted by Trudy Mallinson on 11 Nov, 2019 01:50 PM

    Trudy Mallinson's Avatar

    Hi Jordan,
    Sorry for the delayed reply - crazy month. How important is this? Like others, important enough to me to revert back to 7 (which was buggy after I reverted back) and now I'm mostly using Finder (ugh). I did not find the situation you described above in previous versions. Like Nick, I would like the whole row coloring and ability to choose my own color for labels.
    Thanks for listening,
    Trudy

  13. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 14 Nov, 2019 09:08 AM.

  14. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 14 Nov, 2019 09:08 AM

  15. Support Staff 37 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 14 Nov, 2019 09:09 AM

    Path Finder Support Team's Avatar

    Hi Trudy,

    I'm sorry, could you please give more details? Finder doesn't have tag re-coloring, and Path Finder has full row coloring. What caused the switch? Which situation you didn't find in previous versions?

    Hi Nick and everyone,

    There were no changes yet. While it's possible to bring back, our concerns for about the possible confusions (of tag name to color mismatch) remain. We'd love to gain more feedback before moving on with this. Feel free to invite other users (who might be interested in this) to comment there.

    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  16. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 14 Nov, 2019 09:09 AM.

  17. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 14 Nov, 2019 09:20 AM

  18. 38 Posted by Trudy Mallinson on 14 Nov, 2019 07:47 PM

    Trudy Mallinson's Avatar









    Trudy Mallinson
    [email blocked]
    (773) 213-6745



    Path Finder Support Team wrote on 11/14/19 4:09 AM:
    From: Path Finder Support Team (Cocoatech Support)
    Subject: No Custom Label Colors - Please get it back for PathFinder 8.
    
    Hi **Trudy**,
    
    
    I'm sorry, could you please give more details? Finder doesn't have tag re-coloring, and Path Finder has full row coloring. What caused the switch? Which situation you didn't find in previous versions?
    
    Hi **Nick** and everyone,
    
    
    There were no changes yet. While it's possible to bring back, our concerns for about the possible confusions (of tag name to color mismatch) remain. We'd love to gain more feedback before moving on with this. Feel free to invite other users (who might be interested in this) to comment there.
    
    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.
    
    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team
    
    
    
    
    
    View this discussion at our support site online: https://support.cocoatech.com/discussions/problems/103354-no-custom-label-colors-please-get-it-back-for-pathfinder-8
    
    ---
    
    Reply with #ignore to stop receiving notifications for this discussion.
    

  19. 39 Posted by nick on 24 Nov, 2019 06:55 PM

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    Hi Nick and everyone,

    There were no changes yet. While it's possible to bring back, our concerns for about the possible confusions (of tag name to color mismatch) remain. We'd love to gain more feedback before moving on with this. Feel free to invite other users (who might be interested in this) to comment there.

    This is very disappointing Jordan. I and others have explained in meticulous detail a) why this removed feature is vital to us and b) why it does not in fact need to introduce any confusion to the GUI. It would in any case be entirely voluntary: off by default and merely embedded as an option in the prefs.

    Of course I'd like other users to chime in, especially those who have already contributed to this thread, but since this feature was removed two versions back, many new users will be unaware of it, and would only chance upon this discussion by accident in any case.

    Is PF7 incompatible with Catalina? If so I and others have a hard decision to make, but I would urge you very strongly to reconsider.
    All the best,
    Nick

  20. 40 Posted by nick on 21 Dec, 2019 11:23 AM

    nick's Avatar

    One further thought Jordan. While I'd prefer to see full customisability restored, a compromise option would be to just to give users control over the brightness and saturation of row colouring. (XtraFinder has options for this.) The underlying colours would remain as before, so this would overcome your objection about the effects of a mismatch between standard and custom label colours. It would also overcome the principal objection of many users, that the default colours are too garish. Your reaction to this?

  21. 41 Posted by catonfire on 12 Jan, 2020 02:32 PM

    catonfire's Avatar

    I second every comment above. The inability to control label colors in Finder is what lead me to purchase Pathfinder in the first place. The stripping out of this feature in Pathfinder 8 is what keeps me on 7 rather than gladly paying for upgrades.

    I would sooner pay for a Pathfinder 7 that is compatible with the latest OS than a Pathfinder 8 or 9 that has new features I didn't ask for and is missing ones I have always counted on.

    While there are many other features in Pathfinder I depend on the NEW inability of v8 and v9 to do the most basic things is a bit of a deal breaker and will cause me to seek alternative products.

    The sort of people who use Pathfinder are the kind of people for whom Finder is insufficient. It follows then, that your users are more, not less sophisticated and value function above 'simplicity.' We can overcome 'confusion'. We can't overcome a lack of functionality.

    Pathfinder customers need full-featured solutions. If we didn't, we'd be satisfied with Finder and wouldn't be here in the first place. Please don't make the same mistakes that Apple (iTunes, Trashcan Mac) Microsoft (Word notebooks), and so many other developers make by hamstringing already great products.

    Please go back to what you guys used to excel at:

            Getting the Basics right.
    

    Thanks for your time, efforts, and attention!

  22. 42 Posted by nick on 08 Feb, 2020 08:03 AM

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    Bump. Any response to the last three posts Jordan?
    (And I do at least take my hat off to you for keeping this discussion —and the whole forum—online!) Happy new year,
    Nick

  23. 43 Posted by JG on 17 Feb, 2020 11:12 AM

    JG's Avatar

    Custom Colors is not an issue for me. I'm unwilling to purchase or use this app as long as the tag and label colors cover the entire line name of the file or folder. It's hideous and visually distracting.

  24. 44 Posted by nick on 17 Feb, 2020 11:20 AM

    nick's Avatar

    It looks a lot less hideous if you can mute the colours! But I agree, full row label colours should be an option. (I thought it was.)

    The moral here is that those who care have different ideas about what makes a good visual environment. The point of Path Finder as I see it is to cater for that.

  25. 45 Posted by nick on 10 Apr, 2020 09:35 AM

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    Is this a now a dead duck Jordan? Or are we stuck in an endless loop of "we may reconsider some day?" Or have you stopped reading this thread? Hello?

  26. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 10 Apr, 2020 03:22 PM.

  27. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 10 Apr, 2020 03:23 PM

  28. Support Staff 46 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 10 Apr, 2020 03:23 PM

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    Hi Nick,

    This is still in consideration right now. As far as I can tell the general agreements are to allow adjusting color saturation/brightness without affecting the hue as a compromise, and an option to display tags in dots vs rows. Is this correct? 

    Looking forward to your reply!

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  29. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 10 Apr, 2020 03:23 PM.

  30. nick re-opened this discussion on 10 Apr, 2020 03:43 PM

  31. 47 Posted by nick on 10 Apr, 2020 03:43 PM

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    Thanks Jordan.
    What you suggest (adjustable saturation and brightness) is not ideal but a compromise that I could live with and that would make Path Finder 9 viable for me. (I'd love to be able to move on from 7!).

    Dots vs rows is not something that exercises me personally (as long as we don't lose the option of row colouring) but I understand that it matters to others and I definitely support having the choice.

    If these refinements could make it to the next version that would make me very happy.
    All the best,
    Nick

  32. 48 Posted by peter on 14 May, 2020 07:12 PM

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    I will second the nomination of having possible the adjustment of saturation and brightness (which might also be accomplished with percent of transparency). While I fully appreciate the current implementation (and the angina no doubt caused by this feature among your coders and customers), Apple's color choices are garish in dark mode. Reducing sat & brightness (&/or transparency) would solve that.
    I'm a long long time user of Pathfinder. (I tried reverting to Finder for a while and my blood pressure went up. Home safe with PF9 now.)
    Cheers and health to all. PeterM

  33. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 15 May, 2020 07:35 PM.

  34. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 15 May, 2020 07:37 PM

  35. Support Staff 49 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 15 May, 2020 07:37 PM

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    Hi Romeo,

    Mary from Path Finder support here!

    Thanks for your feedback! I will surely pass this to our developer for further reference, and so he can consider implementing this further down the road.

    Thanks for being Path Finder customer! Should you have anything else I can help you with, do not hesitate to let me know!

    Best Regards,
    Mary 
    Path Finder Support Team

  36. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 15 May, 2020 07:37 PM.

  37. nick re-opened this discussion on 29 May, 2020 08:59 AM

  38. 50 Posted by nick on 29 May, 2020 08:59 AM

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    Finally! Control over the luminosity of label colours has appeared in PF9.3.3. This is a good start, for which I am thankful, but it is only a fractional solution to the problems voiced in this thread.
    See: https://support.cocoatech.com/discussions/problems/167654-label-col...

  39. Support Staff 51 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 29 May, 2020 05:32 PM

    Path Finder Support Team's Avatar

    Hi Romeo,

    Mary from Path Finder support here!

    Indeed, I have looked over through this discussion and was able to gather enough of feedback to pass our developer as a suggestion for further option development. 

    I am sure this would be a good point to start developing feature further, however, it may some time.

    Should you have anything else I can help you with today, do not hesitate to let me know!

    Best Regards,
    Mary
    Path Finder Support Team

  40. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 29 May, 2020 05:32 PM.

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