Sidebar implentation is a mess in PF8

enkaytee's Avatar

enkaytee

23 May, 2018 06:38 PM

Layout not being saved, 'places' missing - the 'new' sidebar in PF 8 is a bit of a mess. I realise you had to do something, but I'm used to the flexibility of adding my own locations and for them to stay in the sidebar -PF8 just seems to revert to some default layout which I didn't choose, and isn't the one from Finder. I've downgraded to 7 for now, and really hoping you'll sort this out....

  1. 1 Posted by lcdpublic on 23 May, 2018 07:09 PM

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    All my favorites in the Sidebar are gone in PF8. This is not ready for release.

    I'm going back to 7.

    **Legih

  2. Support Staff 2 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 23 May, 2018 07:19 PM

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    Hi Nigel,

    We are really sorry about this not working anymore. The API for that functionality (syncing "Favorites" and in general all those "Recent…" lists) was deprecated and abandoned a long time ago. In each new version of PF it worked worse. We tried having that as long as possible, but we cross the point at which it became a liability and not feature. It became a real pain, both in customer support and code maintenance. We don't want to make any kind of excuses here, but in this case, it's really Apple to blame. As far as we know, no other 3rd party application offers that sort of synchronization, even if they did they gave up a long time ago. We kept it as long as possible, but the burden of supporting it became just too overwhelming for the benefits it provides.

    Please feel free to write us back and we will be happy to assist you.

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  3. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 23 May, 2018 07:19 PM.

  4. enkaytee re-opened this discussion on 24 May, 2018 08:42 AM

  5. 3 Posted by enkaytee on 24 May, 2018 08:42 AM

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    It's not a sync problem as such. I don't mind managing favorites in PF alone, but they don't seem to be 'sticky' (see other comments throughout the forum). I think there may be some misunderstanding on my part as to how the saving of various elements works, as I just can't seem to achieve a consistent look to browser windows - under different conditions, the elements seem to change randomly, so perhaps a walkthrough on how to set and maintain a 'default' browser would be good. Thanks...

  6. 4 Posted by linnefaulk on 24 May, 2018 10:23 AM

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    I am really sad that my favorites won't stay once the app is quit. PF has been so consistent for so long, I upgraded right away.

  7. 5 Posted by Jeffrey on 24 May, 2018 01:45 PM

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    I don't understand why it can't save the order of things or new shortcuts I add to it, if it is closed and re-opened. It is like the sidebar defaults every time PF8 starts. Very annoying!!!! If not fixed soon, I will have to go back to PF7

  8. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 24 May, 2018 04:25 PM.

  9. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 24 May, 2018 04:25 PM

  10. 6 Posted by gerryleonidas on 25 May, 2018 10:06 AM

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    Indeed quick access to locations on the sidebar and with a keyboard shortcut is a huge productivity helper. I don't mind recreating the lost "Places" in "Favorites" in PF8, but I want to do it once, and to have the option to set a keyboard shortcut that sticks. This seems broken currently, and is a big enough issue to force a downgrade if there is no commitment to add sticky shortcuts to sticky favorites.

  11. 7 Posted by John Read on 25 May, 2018 12:49 PM

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    I agree with the above discussion. The configurable sidebar was the one distinguishing feature of Path Finder that made it better then just running two side-by-side windows of Finder. Seems a shame that as a long-term user of Path Finder on several computers that I had to pay for this upgrade that broke one of my most valued features.

  12. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 26 May, 2018 01:17 PM.

  13. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 26 May, 2018 01:17 PM

  14. 8 Posted by Jeffrey on 30 May, 2018 12:38 AM

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    I organize spatially, in lists.
    If my tools aren't where I can reach them, then the workspace needs to change.
    I don't think I can use a file manager that chooses not to offer this function.

  15. 9 Posted by portaferry on 30 May, 2018 03:24 AM

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    There seems a complete disconnect in the communication with PF. If PF removed functions from user were used to in 7 and earlier. This should have been announced and the reasons for doing so explained. I got PF 8 to a satisfactory state and crashed once too often and I have gone back to PF7. I get it that you can only put so many miles on a car; and you have a choice of renovation or building a new car. That latter usually is the best option. So this is a lot of work and you end up with something same and similar as before but more ready for the challenges of 2018 on. I think the wordy, most recent blog is saying PF needs to be re-built, (but silent on the consequences). I will support that and will pay for a rebuild but PF has to do a lot better with its communication & implementation. This is a great app - its by its very nature at the centre of everything I do. We want PF 8 to be great. What are the steps required to do this?

  16. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 30 May, 2018 01:26 PM.

  17. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 30 May, 2018 01:26 PM

  18. 10 Posted by andrew.connecte... on 31 May, 2018 02:45 AM

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    Cocoatech,
    The next time you do a major upgrade to PF, please don’t do what you have done here in the jump from v7 to v8. I hope you appreciate that the rewritten modules, while useful to you (and thereby hopefully useful to users in the future) has come at an unnecessarily high cost to us, your users, in the here and now. Ultimately we pay your salaries. Our money and our brand loyalty make your livelihood possible. Remember that. Take that into account the next time you decide to reinvent the wheel. You have done fine work for many years and built up a certain amount of good will, but PF8 has not added to that. Quite the opposite, it seems to me. If you think you can pull an Apple (i.e. the way they rearchitected Final Cut without warning, took away features that users were accustomed to, and then added them back in over time) I’d just like to point out that your company is not starting from as high (i.e. financially secure) a place as Apple did. I don’t think you can afford to be that cavalier in the way you treat your users. As for the under-the-hood modularity in PF8, is there no way to structure it such that the sidebar could be a “meta-module” that could contain as many “sub-modules” as the user wishes -- and the “meta-module” could be hidden/unhidden just by clicking on a toolbar widget? That way you could manipulate not just individual modules but clusters of them as well. You could also preserve the customizability that PF is rightly lauded for, and the modularity that you see as a way forward is retained as a paradigm. Thanks for hearing me out.

  19. Support Staff 11 Posted by Path Finder Sup... on 31 May, 2018 03:12 PM

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    Hi, 

    I see that we disrupted workflow for a big number of PathFinder users and I'm really sorry to hear about that. 

    I'd like to point out that it's not only about modules structure though. 
    The used APIs in PathFinder 7 are outdated by now, a re-write was necessary anyway for the sake of stability. 
    PathFinder 7 Sidebar simply caused too many issues. The new version is indeed "a mess" now. 
    But please note that we are actively working on improving PathFinder and this doesn't have to be the final version. 
    We are following your feedback and forwarding key points to the developers to consider implementing them. 

    Once again, sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for being so understanding and patient. 

    Best Regards,
    Jordan 
    Path Finder Support Team

  20. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 31 May, 2018 03:12 PM.

  21. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 31 May, 2018 03:12 PM

  22. 12 Posted by David Martin on 01 Jun, 2018 06:31 PM

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    Whatever you and your team does Jordan, the Find window has got to have a sidebar for the selection path. A Find function that tells the user they have the files or folders but fails to tell them where the files and folders actually are is completely worthless.

    I have nearly 80TB of files, triple-backed up across eight (8) G-Tech drives, and I am not prepared to open "More Info" in order to figure out where the files are, especially since each file is located on at least two (2) G-tech RAID drives.

    To forget this feature is a marked demonstration of your developers not really having any experience at "using" Path Finder in real-world conditions.

    Unless this is fixed within the next patch or fix, I want my $20 upgrade fee back. I trusted you and you failed to keep that trust with PF8.

  23. 13 Posted by Incanto on 01 Jun, 2018 07:07 PM

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    I absolutely must echo what David Martin has posted regarding the Find window. What a shock to search for the path to the found file and not find it! That and the sidebar mess adds up to one of the worst, if not The Worst, software upgrade releases I have ever encountered. Lucky for me I haven't paid the $20, which I definitely want to do; now I have to figure out how to rid 8.0.1 from my system and return to the latest version 7.

  24. 14 Posted by David Martin on 01 Jun, 2018 07:17 PM

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    In all fairness to Cocoatech, Incanto, the worst upgrades in IMHO was Adobe Lightroom in 2015 and again this year. Both were completely unusable and necessitated rollbacks to previous versions. However, the rollbacks did work.

    I have tried to rollback to PF7 several times to no avail. PF7 comes up blank or with the same sidebarless Find window. Jason's instructions for deleting certain files in the Library/Application support do not work because the folder and files do not exist!

    So I am stuck with this useless app that I paid good money for unless or until they fix their mistakes.

    At least Adobe in 2018 had a vision for their new version of Lightroom; the fact that it has more bugs than a cockroach factory is almost an aside. What Cocoatech was thinking about producing a worthless Find feature in PF8 is beyond understanding by mere mortals.

  25. 15 Posted by Incanto on 01 Jun, 2018 07:25 PM

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    I have no experience with Lightroom, David, so I'll take your word for that. Now I'm in the same boat, unable to get PF 7 working, back to my former--as of yesterday--perfectly satisfactory Pathfinder. Now what? Wait for Cocoatech to send out some fixes or at least give accurate instructions for rolling back to 7.

  26. 16 Posted by David Martin on 01 Jun, 2018 07:36 PM

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    Probably, Incanto. I was hopeful that the patch release from yesterday would address the issue, but alas, it did not. Fortunately, I was never so reliant on the shelves and apps in the sidebar, so that did not impact me, and I haven't seen the other bugs reported by the users. Fingers-crossed!

    However, imagine my scenario. I am a professional photographer working for well-known clientele all over the world. I have a catalog with over 3M images going back to 1982 Formula 1 in the film days—hence the need for triplicate backups of both scanned and digital images—and I am always going through the Find function to locate images based upon file name keywords.

    PF7 and its predecessors were fast and efficient; far better than Lightroom for the same search as long as I wasn't searching based only on keywords. Now it's all gone, and for absolutely no explicable reason other than someone has no clue how users use PF.

    If Cocoatech was designing digital cameras, theirs would have no save function. That's how basic and how stupid this implementation is.

    I would really like some accurate instructions for rolling back. Actually, an installation program which would perform all of the "tweaks" necessary to get PF7 to work on a system tainted by PF* would be ideal and I think others would agree that Cocoatech owes its paying customers this boon.

    Or just give us our money back.. haven't seen any acknowledgment to dozens of requests that this refund is in the making. Not holding my breath.

  27. 17 Posted by Incanto on 01 Jun, 2018 08:18 PM

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    I can imagine, only imagine, your aggravation at this David. Not sure about bugs but if you search discussions for problems with the sidebar since the "upgrade" you'll find a couple of other posts with users complaining about it. Not sure what to hope for. Just wait, I guess.

  28. 18 Posted by David Martin on 01 Jun, 2018 08:26 PM

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    I've been a loyal user of PF since 2014, and my only complaint has been the abysmal CPU usage which has improved greatly since the last releases of PF& and seems to be okay in PF8.

    I know I'm not the only one complaining about the useless Find function. The fact that this release was tossed out there with a demand for payment leaves me gobsmacked. It indicates either a cavalier attitude towards the users, or abject stupidity on behalf of the developers, or pure, simple greed.

    I hate to think which is the best or worst choice.

    All I can state is that ForkLift, which I tired, is not the answer. It's move and copy functions are so primitive as to defy description, and it's a RAM hog like PF never was. So we're stuck, hoping that our loyalty will be recognized.

  29. 19 Posted by portaferry on 01 Jun, 2018 08:33 PM

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    Regarding removing PF8. I just used CleanMyMac to remove all elements of PF8. I then rebooted. Then Downloaded latest version of PF7 from Pathfinder web page and worked without any glitches. Love PF7 after my dalliance with PF8!

  30. 20 Posted by David Martin on 01 Jun, 2018 08:35 PM

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    I have Clean My Mac, and the install after the removal was still a bust. What did you do exactly that some of us might have missed?

  31. 21 Posted by dhnyny on 02 Jun, 2018 12:17 AM

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    For rolling back from PF8 to PF7, why not just restore from a pre-PF8 backup? That approach to downgrading or reinstalling a corrupt application has never failed me, though in this case I was able to simply delete PF8, download PF7, and all was well. Maybe it's because I hadn't yet paid for PF8?

    As for the sidebar, the fact that I set it up the way I like it, closed it, and then found that it reverted to its defaults when I reopened it is one reason I went back to PF7.

  32. 22 Posted by TomEUS on 02 Jun, 2018 05:28 PM

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    I am too rolling back to PF7!

    For me it is the missing places that I can't be without - I work with many network mapped drives, where in PF7 I could create "shortcut" that would automatically mapped to the location. Now I have to do CMD+K select the drive, connect and navigate...

    Please, please bring places back!

  33. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 02 Jun, 2018 09:06 PM.

  34. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 02 Jun, 2018 09:06 PM

  35. 23 Posted by psychiatry on 03 Jun, 2018 02:25 PM

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    MISSING FEATURE: NO MULTiPLE CUSTOM SIDEBARS - PathFinder 8 only has one sidebar which you have to rebuild from what you have with the Finder. The rebuild is limited to folders since it cannot accept Aliases and Symbolic Links like the Finder Sidebar

    CORRECTION:

    I FOUND YOU CAN HAVE MULTIPLE CUSTOM SIDEBARS

    IT IS NOT OBVIOUS as in PathFinder 7.

    It is a poor implementation compared to PathFinder 7.

    TO CREATE A CUSTOM SIDEBAR

    1) Click the ratchet icon of the Sidebar to popup the Sidebar Preferences
    2) Go to the bottom of the Sidebar Preferences to click on the UNLABLED Popup Button.
    3) There you select SAVE... to create a custom Sidebar by giving it a name and saving it.

    From then on, you select from this UNLABLED Popup Button the custom Sidebar you want.

    WARNINGS

    1) Everytime you add or remove a folder to or from Favorites, you have to create another custom sidebar. Otherwise, the newly added folder will NOT be automatically saved by PathFinder. This behavior is different from PathFinder 7 where Sidebar Favorites are automatically saved.

    2) THERE IS NO SHOW SIDEBAR MENU ITEM in the View Menu. So if you want to hide the sidebar then show it again you have to go through very CLUNKY STEPS:

    A) Go to the Window menu.
    B) Select Modules
    C) You may have to scroll around the Modules window a bit - wasting your time.
    D) Find and select the Sidebar module
    E) Drag the Sidebar module to the sidebar location of the window.
    F) Click the ratched icon of the Sidebar to popup the Sidebar Preferences
    G) **Click on popup menu button
    at the bottom of the Sidebar Preferences
    H) Select the custom sidebar you want to reset the sidebar contents.

    This use to be a one step process of selecting Show Sidebar in the View Menu.

    LINK: https://i.imgur.com/93KKMyl.png

    INLINE IMAGE: Pathfinder Custom Sidebars

  36. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 03 Jun, 2018 07:03 PM.

  37. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 03 Jun, 2018 07:03 PM

  38. 24 Posted by dtoub on 04 Jun, 2018 03:03 AM

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    Yeah, it’s a bummer we had to recreate our sidebar favorites. As a beta tester I had to do it probably 3-4 times. But did anyone read the earlier threads explaining why there is no longer a favorites sync with the Finder? Please take the minute or less to do so but I’ll summarize: Apple broke the API.

    Look, most of us were not happy with the major instability of PF 7. It was a bunch of spaghetti code and hats off to the developers for keeping it reasonably alive for so long. But just as OS X had to be built from the ground up and lost compatibility with older software, same with PF. And the fact is that I haven’t had to rebuild my favorites since one of the early betas and I no longer have major crashes or constant RAM leaks up to 16 GB. I can use PF again after having had to switch to the Finder. So yes they had to go to modules. But that makes the code much more fixable and in the end this is a win.

    Why anyone would return to PF7.x is beyond me. Stop kvetching, take five minutes and rebuild your favorites, lock it in the settings and you’ll be way better off. Sorry but I’m sick of all the bitching and moaning.

  39. 25 Posted by TomEUS on 04 Jun, 2018 03:06 AM

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    Rebuilding would be fine but this is a real problem:

    "since it cannot accept Aliases and Symbolic Links"

    Not all of my data is on the Mac - Aliases and Symbolic links pointing to network shares are must have

  40. 26 Posted by enkaytee on 04 Jun, 2018 06:35 AM

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    dtoub - I'd love to be able to 'stop kvetching' but your suggestion to 'take five minutes and rebuild your favorites, lock it in the settings' simply doesn't work for me (and believe me, I've spent a lot more than five minutes struggling to make it work!) If you have been able to achieve this so that PF8 ALWAYS opens from whatever state (program load, computer restart, new browser etc.) with your desired configuration in the sidebar, then please share it here because it's definitely not working for me. Thanks...

  41. 27 Posted by portaferry on 04 Jun, 2018 07:06 AM

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    I have played around with this in last few hours. Heres a possibility which I am continuing to verify. Its possible that the impression that that your window structuring/fomatting is lost occurs because under certain circumstances old windows unexpectedly come to the forefront. If you delete these windows the last man standing is your sought after window. This is work in progress, but that seems to have happened with me say on re-boot and other events, ...

  42. 28 Posted by enkaytee on 04 Jun, 2018 07:17 AM

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    portaferry - this may be true, but what about when PF8 is just started such as when the Mac is switched on or the app has to be reopened for some reason. In this instance there is only one browser window and I simply couldn't find a way to create a 'default' sidebar that loaded EVERY time I ran PF8. If there is a simple way to achieve this please tell me. Although in the settings list for the sidebar a 'default' setting exists, this is the standard out of the box layout which doesn't work for me, but there isn't a way to overwrite it that I've found - if you name your custom layout 'default' it just creates a second instance of default in the list. My experience is that whatever state you leave the sidebar in (and whether you've saved it or not) you can't rely on that layout loading when PF8 starts.

  43. 29 Posted by help on 04 Jun, 2018 09:12 AM

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    A PF customer since 2010 (PF5). this morning I installed the free-trial to upgrade from PF7 to PF8. Big mistake! All my recently used folders missing from the sidebar. Consider my other preferred settings seemed to be ok, how come PF8 doesn't reiterate? I now read from this thread that PF8 doesn't allow recently used folders in the sidebar. What's the point of PF8 if it's at least not as good as Finder?

    I have uninstalled PF8 but don't seem to be able to reinstall PF7. I guess I'll have to waste more time removing hidden files, etc. I tried restoring using Time Machine but that didn't work.

    Pity after all this time that CocoaT seem to have decided to ditch long-standing customers by releasing an update that is pretty, rather than useful. Way of the world nowadays: developers run out of of ideas so all that's left is to play around and expect people to pay accordingly. Fortunately I still have PF7 on another Mac, but on my main machine I'll just have to start using Finder. Pity. I am going to miss the more straightforward Batch Rename and Insert.

    (Sierra 10.12.6)

  44. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 04 Jun, 2018 05:12 PM.

  45. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 04 Jun, 2018 05:13 PM

  46. 30 Posted by Kirby Krieger on 13 Jul, 2018 08:44 PM

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    I have to echo this as well:

    I absolutely must echo what David Martin has posted regarding the Find window. What a shock to search for the path to the found file and not find it!

    Has this been fixed? Afaict, I cannot add any Modules to the Find window. I rely on Path Finder displaying the path to the selected item. (I am also a photographer; I also have millions of folders and files.)

    Whatever you and your team does Jordan, the Find window has got to have a sidebar for the selection path. A Find function that tells the user they have the files or folders but fails to tell them where the files and folders actually are is completely worthless.

  47. Path Finder Support Team closed this discussion on 14 Jul, 2018 01:44 PM.

  48. Path Finder Support Team re-opened this discussion on 14 Jul, 2018 01:44 PM

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